Your Coffee Maker Has Bluetooth And Your Kid Can’t Read Slaughterhouse Five

Megan 
Hi Lesley.

Lesley 
Hi, Megan.

Megan 
How are you my friend?

Lesley
I'm in a tiny bit of hell. I'm terrible, honestly. Things have been much better. Terrible on a scale of like everybody's alive and my house is in one piece. You know what I mean? Like, I'm not that terrible.

Megan 
Okay. Yeah, like it could be worse.

Lesley 
But in like the context of just like a lot of dumb, hard things happening all at once, it's like a 10, a 10 on like the, you know, what do we use in the eighties? Defcon, when they would talk about like distance to war. Like if there's a Defcon five and that's like, you know, everybody's dead, your house burnt down, your dog is legless, whatever. We're not at Defcon five.

Megan
Ugh.

Megan 
Yeah.

Lesley 
I'm sort of like at a DEF CON 2, like tipping into like a 3.

Megan 
okay. Okay. So the

There's room for improvement on either end. Yeah.

Lesley 
Oh my God, yes. And it's complicated, right? Like it's difficult. And it's, yes, it's difficult. And it's just like, what the fu- I mean, what are you supposed to do? Just stop? Do you stop living? You go, oh, and you whine and stomp your feet. I mean, you can, it helps for a minute. What? I don't want-

Megan 
Right? No, you can't do that. Nope.

Megan 
Sure, sure.

Lesley 
and then you just like fucking put your pants. I don't want it. Put your big girl panties back on and you walk out the door and you go do the next right thing because what else are you gonna do?

Megan 
Dude, I say that every morning. I don't wanna.

Megan 
I'm probably 20 minutes late going to do whatever the next thing is because I don't want to. So there's a lot of like, there's a lot of whining and carrying on about it. But we're Gen X and this is what we do.

Lesley (05:09.403)
I don't wanna.

Lesley (05:15.035)
You know what? So. Yep, we do it. We do it. And it seems I don't feel alone in it like peripherally, like it seems like this week in particular has been really like I've had lots of conversations with people where like mechanical things are breaking down. I'm sure some brilliant astrological person could tell me all kinds of things, but like lots of car accidents. I didn't have a car accident, but I had something break.

But then other people, like just things breaking, emails not working, like all this like tech interruption and just causing, just not, well sometimes it's major if your car's totaled, right? Like major inconveniences, but also like perplexedly, there's nothing you can do about it. So it's just sort of like, well.

Megan (05:52.482)
Mm-hmm.

Megan (06:06.894)
Yeah, well, it's funny. It's funny that you say it exactly like that because I've noticed that shit just doesn't work in general like Everything seems to be just a little bit broken like websites don't work the way they're supposed to You know like like soda machines. It's it's it's weird shit, right? it's like is there a solar flare that just fucks everything up or

Lesley (06:18.073)
Okay.

Lesley (06:25.094)
Okay.

Lesley (06:31.709)
Yes.

Lesley (06:35.645)
Right.

Megan (06:36.866)
you know, what is it? And it's funny because Jeff, my husband, my sweet, sweet husband calls it the fuckification of everything. He's like, it's just the general fuckification of everything.

Lesley (06:44.434)
Right.

Fuffification of everything. I mean, that's what's happening right now, right? In the world. It's the fuffi... the fuffification? The fuckification of everything. Let's break it a little or a lot. And then just like go, oops.

Megan (06:52.77)
Yeah, I mean, it feels like that. The FFFF occasion.

Right.

Megan (07:05.41)
Yeah, because you know, when you break it just a little bit, it's super annoying, because you're like, this should this used to work better. Like, why doesn't this particular thing work anymore? The way that it used to? I mean, I've kind of given up on the flying car thing, we're not going to get one, we've got maybe autonomous driving cars and right, like, because they don't work either. And yeah, so I've given up on that.

Lesley (07:09.619)
Mm-hmm.

Lesley (07:13.224)
Mm-hmm.

Lesley (07:18.001)
Right. Yes.

Lesley (07:23.369)
Those things are pieces of shit.

No!

Megan (07:34.018)
But could I just have a vacuum cleaner work longer than like, I don't know, two months before it poops out on you, right?

Lesley (07:38.857)
Mm.

Lesley (07:44.584)
Yep. Yes. If we're going to talk about like taking things back, you know, like you're reversed. Let's make things out of metal and that we can take apart and repair with reasonable diagrams and no smart anything. Take all the smart out. I want a dumb vacuum.

Megan (07:52.44)
Yeah, back to the good old days. Sure.

Megan (07:59.276)
Yeah, yeah, right. Mm-hmm. Yep.

Yep.

Megan (08:12.248)
Mm-hmm, smart out. Right.

Lesley (08:14.513)
I want a dumb coffee maker. There's no reason for my coffee maker. It has a Bluetooth function. I don't know why. It doesn't control the coffee maker. I don't know what it's for. I didn't even buy a fancy coffee maker, but I had to hook it up to my phone. And I don't know why.

Megan (08:25.443)
Go.

Megan (08:33.704)
That's so stupid. But yeah, I

Lesley (08:35.345)
Like I replaced my Nespresso and I had to hook it up and it does nothing. You can change the temperature maybe? I don't know. Like why?

Megan (08:43.63)
I don't understand. don't understand. Make America work again. Just a little bit. Just work a little better.

Lesley (08:53.267)
Thank you. Yes. Yes. I mean, we've got nowhere to go but up. I mean, we're still fucking tanking it right now. Like, let's be clear, we're not done breaking it. And.

Megan (09:04.498)
yeah. yeah, no, we're... Yeah, no. Yeah, it's got a ways to go before it's completely broke.

Lesley (09:13.065)
You know, and there are layers to that. We could get to DEFCON 5. Really would prefer not. I feel like we're probably at a 2, 3, maybe a 4 some days. Maybe we're closer to a 5 behind the scenes than we know. I mean, right? The rest of the world is probably just like so befuddled.

Megan (09:17.258)
Easy. Yeah.

Megan (09:23.022)
Ha ha ha!

That's probably true. That's probably true. Yeah.

Megan (09:34.85)
Well, the doomsday clock, you know, we're as close as we've ever been to the do on the doomsday clock to hitting what midnight or whatever when everything goes to hell. Sure. Sure. Yeah, someday we probably need to have a whole conversation about the the fact that we don't have.

Lesley (09:36.767)
yeah.

Lesley (09:44.295)
Right. Well, you know, false news, fake news, fake news, girl.

Megan (10:00.19)
actual media anymore that isn't run by like Barry Weiss and the MyPillow fucker. That guy. That guy.

Lesley (10:08.207)
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What does that mean? I mean, you keep your eye on media stuff and I do too a little bit, but it's the independent journalists that are coming out of all of this are fucking awesome.

Megan (10:12.62)
He has his own news.

Megan (10:23.202)
Yes. Yeah, no, and I'm glad we have them, but it's pretty easy to shut them up because, you know, they're on platforms that are controlled by the other side, right? So, or I shouldn't say the other side, but they're just controlled by people who don't value independent journalism. Right.

Lesley (10:29.374)
Mm-hmm.

Lesley (10:32.893)
Right.

Lesley (10:36.455)
Right, right, sure, sure, yeah.

Lesley (10:42.921)
mean, they're often on meta-related platforms, but there's sub stack, you everybody's got to make a living too. Like you can't go be an independent journalist for free. So you gotta pay, but if you want to know things and I think thinking people look at news resources outside of the United States also, right? And if you aren't, dive in, just go explore.

Megan (10:50.178)
Sure.

Megan (10:57.922)
Mm-hmm.

Megan (11:01.611)
for sure. For sure. Yep.

Megan (11:08.13)
Yeah. I mean, I don't know what I would do without Crooked Media and Pod Save America and Pod Save the World and Hysteria and those like, I love them. That's how I get news. and the Daily Show.

Lesley (11:14.578)
Hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lesley (11:25.961)
Well, yes. And then we watched Dear Stephen Colbert, just be smart and delightful. Yeah. And I listened to Jessica Yellen and Under the Desk News. News Not Noise is Jessica and then V has Under the Desk News. Both of them are great. And I've been listening to Aaron Parnas recently. Have you followed his stuff? He's been like balls to the wall with, well, that's maybe not the right thing to say with the Epstein files.

Megan (11:42.956)
Yep, the bulwark, the bulwark.

Okay.

Megan (11:53.678)
No, that works.

Lesley (11:55.31)
Oops. But like relentless in unpacking that stuff and summarizing it so that we don't have to necessarily subject ourselves to every single page. So they're just great people. my gosh. Yeah.

Megan (12:08.908)
which is helpful. Yeah. Yeah. So, my God. Well, we'll have to break all that shit down at some point because talk about the fuckification of everything. That would be a big piece of it.

Lesley (12:15.815)
Yeah.

Lesley (12:22.836)
For certain. Huge. It's almost like... Yeah!

Megan (12:25.134)
So... What? It's almost like what?

Lesley (12:30.185)
I was going to give you a segue, but then we'd have to go backwards. So it's all I was gonna say it's almost like there's a culture work.

Megan (12:34.638)
you

Megan (12:39.67)
It's true. Yes. And I don't have anything else to say to that other than yes, there is a culture worm. Yeah, I think we should. I think we should. But I'm sorry. I just wanted to say to you, I am sorry that things are shittay and I hope that things do get better because you can't have it for, you can't have an extended period of time that sucks.

Lesley (12:45.711)
Yes. And maybe we'll talk about that later. I don't know. Maybe. But we should talk about...

Lesley (12:58.857)
shiitake mushrooms.

Lesley (13:07.112)
Mm-hmm.

Megan (13:07.598)
to a degree where you are at DEF CON 3. That's a lot. Yeah, for sure.

Lesley (13:11.751)
Yeah, it's expensive to be there too. I just like, I how many makes that shit. Yes, thank you. I appreciate that. Part of Defcon 3, this is funny and I'll just share it because somebody else is having this experience. Our neighbors texted us a picture Tuesday as I was watching my car be towed away with a little red, it circled something in red on it. And our dear neighbor said,

There are squirrels going in here on your house. And I said, thank you. Thank you very much.

Megan (13:44.046)
you

Megan (13:47.982)
Thank you. Thanks, neighbors.

Lesley (13:51.036)
Uh-huh. And that's kind of what, like, is, you know what I mean? So there's going to be a weekend of wildlife, well, a Saturday of wildlife removal happening. don't know. I'm pretty excited. Off.

Megan (13:54.829)
Yeah.

Megan (14:01.6)
please don't bring them to my house because my sweet neighbor who I adore is way into hand feeding the wildlife. And so all the squirrels think that my, if I leave my back door open for a hot second, they're like, Hey, are you a hand feeder too? What you got in there?

Lesley (14:13.117)
Don't.

Lesley (14:20.965)
Mm-hmm. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Mm-mm.

Megan (14:27.328)
And boy, would they be surprised when my dog comes tearing out after them. Yeah.

Lesley (14:31.977)
Right? I blame all those fucking content creators who are like, oh, look at that cute, I'm gonna make a friend, oh, squirrel, let me give him a peanut. You know where that squirrel's gonna be? In your fucking house. With a coconut, leave him outside. You were gonna say a thing. You were transitioning us someplace else.

Megan (14:42.347)
Right.

up your butt. I don't know. I was going to say that we should probably talk about people who have died of late. And you had somebody that you, mean, of note that had passed in February.

Lesley (14:59.119)
Always.

Lesley (15:04.571)
Right, right, We were like, who's died? And I was like, I don't even know. I haven't even been able to pay attention, but I did remember. And then you reminded me that Robert Duvall died. And though Robert Duvall is not a Gen Xer, Robert Duvall's roles were a part of our adolescence. And obviously he continued to make films, I think his...

Megan (15:18.284)
Hmm.

Megan (15:28.771)
Yes.

Lesley (15:33.257)
Last listed film was like 1922. 1922. That is a lie. How about we go forward? What year is this? 2022.

Megan (15:41.966)
It is 2026 right now. Yeah, no, I don't think he was even born in 1922. Yeah, no, his first role, I think, was he did some theater in the 50s. So I think he was probably, yeah, he was probably, I'm gonna guess, born in like the late 30s. That's my guess.

Lesley (15:47.197)
doing great.

Nope, nope, not at all. think he was born in the fifties.

Lesley (16:00.961)
brilliant. I should move, pull up something other than his discography. my God. I have no words. I'm dead. I'm done.

Megan (16:12.59)
I guess I could pull up and see like when he was born. He was born 1931, San Diego. He died at the age of 95 on February 15th. So a long, long career. was, he worked in theater and movies from 1952 to 19 to 2022.

Lesley (16:14.057)
Mm-mm.

Lesley (16:21.769)
There you go.

Lesley (16:28.016)
Yes.

Aww.

Lesley (16:40.851)
There you go. I knew 1950 something was a part of that story. And 2022, 1922.

Megan (16:42.008)
So something, something. He, right. He was married four times. He was in the army at one point from 1953 to 1954. That's one year, But, you know, that's enough to know how things work when you get to star in the movie version of MASH. So.

Lesley (16:53.714)
Alright.

Lesley (17:08.489)
Exactly. And he might have been, you know, could have been January to December, like almost two years, somewhere in there. Could have been, could have been. Very recognizable actor from the 80s for me. I remember him in The Natural. I really enjoyed that movie. He was in...

Megan (17:13.934)
It could have been, yeah. Could have been, for sure.

Lesley (17:36.209)
Invasion of the Body Snatchers. I did not know this. Such a great movie. Until right this second, I was like, what? Get out.

Megan (17:38.254)
I love that movie. Such a movie.

Yeah, now I have to think about that because that was Donald Sutherland, yes?

Lesley (17:52.777)
huh?

Megan (17:55.0)
Doesn't Donald Sutherland engage with the body staturess? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay.

Lesley (17:56.016)
for Invasion of the Body Snatchers, yes. Yes, yes, yes. But he was uncredited in that movie. He was the priest on swing. I was like, I would never have associated him with that at all. And there's a reason why. Apocalypse Now, do you remember watching that movie in the 80s for sure?

Megan (18:03.682)
Wow, that's wild. That's wild.

Megan (18:12.802)
Yeah. So I think I've only watched a fraction of that movie. I think that was one that somebody had a videotape of and I watched a little bit and then I was like, you know, I'm not entirely sure that war movies are my jam. So not my thing. I did, however, enjoy The Godfather and he was in that. So.

Lesley (18:23.241)
Mm.

Lesley (18:31.495)
Not my thing.

Yes. Yep. Yes. Was in that. And I don't know if you were into this movie in 1990, but days of thunder, the Tom Cruise race car movie.

Megan (18:48.839)
did he play? Yeah. He, was like his coach or something. If, if a race car driver can have a coach. Yeah.

Lesley (18:53.777)
Yeah. And Nicole Kidman was in it. All the things. But my, I didn't tell you the story because I was like, this is a one sentence story and it will be funny for like a half a second. I remember Robert Duvall from watching Lonesome Dove, the TV mini series, which is a topic that we've thought about talking about many times with the TV mini series.

Megan (19:17.026)
Mm-hmm.

Megan (19:23.884)
Yes. Zzzzz, yeah.

Lesley (19:24.103)
Zzzzz. And then I never remember that. For some reason, we would gather the theater kids and we would go over to someone's house. I don't remember whom's house, who's his house. We were all in the basement and we were obsessed with watching Lonesome Dove together. So it must've been on a weekend, like maybe a Sunday. I don't know. Obsessed.

Megan (19:46.912)
Okay. Yeah, I don't. Okay.

Lesley (19:50.942)
because of the actors, because of the acting. And then I don't know who was in it, but there is this quote, we would call it lonesome poker, because they use the word poking as a euphemism for sex all the time. They talk about giving her a poke or getting a poke or whatever. And so there are women, you know, working girls in different...

Megan (20:09.77)
Really? Well...

Megan (20:18.19)
getting poked.

Lesley (20:19.177)
tie, you know, in different parts of the movie. And I just remember this, I don't know who it was. I'll have find it again. It doesn't matter. But the line was from this young girl who was upset about someone she was interested in her man. I don't know. But the line was he won't poke me or nothing. And we all lost our fucking minds laughing so hard because she was complaining about

Megan (20:38.83)
Do it.

Lesley (20:47.439)
I think as a working girl, not getting sex from someone who maybe was like, had took a shine to her, but she was like, if you don't want to have sex with me, why are we, what is going on? Like, I don't understand this being valued for not just sex with me, but my God, we thought that was amazing.

Megan (21:03.916)
Right. I don't understand this. This relationship. Right. Poke me.

Lesley (21:14.313)
Poke me was basically what she was saying. Yes, it was amazing. It was pretty hilarious. We thought it was great.

Megan (21:17.582)
That is absurd and I love it. And I'm sure somebody out there who is listening to this is like, oh my God, yes. Hogan. So I think that's funny. think he, I was looking at the awards that he has, he won over the course of his career and he, um, Academy Award, a BAFTA.

Lesley (21:23.453)
I remember that. I thought that didn't happen. Yeah, it was great. So there you go. This is what I remember about Robert DeWalt.

Lesley (21:37.704)
Mm-hmm.

Megan (21:42.862)
Four Golden Globes, two Primetime Emmys, and a SAG. So really he was what, like a Tony away from the Ultimatum? That's pretty wild. Somebody should have just like gave him a, I don't know, gave him a role on Broadway or something real quick. Right? Get that Tony.

Lesley (21:42.985)
Okay. Okay.

Wow.

Lesley (21:54.663)
Yes. Yep. Yep.

Lesley (22:06.545)
Right. Just like a bit part so we can get it. I was just looking at the, his, 2022 film, the pale blue eye. And I actually watched that. remember watching it and I don't remember him being in it, but that doesn't mean anything. Christian Bale is the lead in that. And I just don't have like a specific memory of the part that he played in it, but it was a great movie. yeah.

Megan (22:27.345)
that's cool.

Megan (22:31.788)
Yeah, yeah. That's cool. Well, he will be lost, he will be missed. And I know that there were there's there was just a ton of people in the in the arts who

Lesley (22:36.317)
He was Jean Pepe. There we go.

Lesley (22:47.805)
Mm.

Megan (22:48.174)
kind of gave tribute to him and just said what a lovely person he was and he was just such a great actor. He was like an actor's actor, right? He was like the person who everybody wanted to act with because there's just that, you you and I are both in theater and theater people and so, you know, if you've never done it before, there are...

Lesley (22:55.379)
Yeah.

Lesley (22:59.911)
Ugh.

Lesley (23:04.797)
Mm-hmm.

Megan (23:09.55)
There are the people that you want to be on stage with because they're gracious and fabulous and they're supportive of you. And like, they are helping you with your lines as much as you are helping them with their lines. And it, 100%. And like, I guess he was very much on that team, you know, on everybody's team, which is probably why he made such great work. So, yeah.

Lesley (23:13.565)
Mm-hmm.

Lesley (23:20.657)
Yes, you're all on the same team.

Lesley (23:32.251)
Yeah, that's cool. I love to hear that. So there we go. I guess who died this week is like, who do we remember that died this week?

Megan (23:37.218)
Yeah.

Megan (23:42.126)
Well, we can, you know, we've got another couple the next episode. I know we've got some other people we can talk about too. So yeah.

Lesley (23:49.018)
yeah, yeah, yeah. gosh. And this is, we just talked about this at the beginning. He, didn't realize until today that he played Boo Radley in the film version of To Kill a Mockingbird, which everyone remembers with Gregory Peck. and then he was in the film version of MASH, which we mentioned as well, but that To Kill a Mockingbird film, I definitely remember watching that as a young, you know, like elementary school as a young person. so good.

Megan (23:59.202)
That's awesome.

Megan (24:06.402)
Mm-hmm. So cool.

Megan (24:14.134)
for sure. For sure.

Lesley (24:18.363)
Where do we go from here?

Megan (24:18.734)
So, well, let's take a break, take a stretch, and we'll come back and we're going to talk a little bit about some shit that's in the news right now that will sound very familiar.

Lesley (24:22.781)
Okay.

Lesley (24:33.137)
Inquiring minds want to know.

Megan (24:35.522)
Nothing's new.

Lesley (24:40.019)
Beeeep I'll tell Tim to listen for the beep.

Megan (24:44.462)
Tim, here is your beep.

Lesley (24:46.505)
Beepity beep beep beep beep beep.

I thought I could like add mark. Well, you can add markers, but they didn't work the way that I thought that they did. So there we go. He'll figure it out. Okay.

Megan (24:57.848)
That's all right. All right, you ready?

Lesley (25:01.778)
The script is here. Okie dokie.

Megan (25:07.114)
Okey-dokey. All right, so Leslie, what I wanted to do today was I wanted to talk about something that I think a whole bunch of GenXers like us probably didn't fully understand when we were kids, but it was shit that was totally happening. just, we were young and kind of dumb and focused on being kids, which we...

Lesley (25:22.008)
Mm-hmm.

Lesley (25:29.745)
and not on social media all the time.

Megan (25:32.138)
Right? So, and probably not sitting watching the news all the time because why would we?

Lesley (25:35.495)
No. And the news was only on a couple times a day.

Megan (25:39.586)
Right, right, right. So that is that there was and now is again this culture war around public education. So while we were growing up in the 70s and 80s, there was a huge political fight that was happening over what kids would be or should be taught in school. Bonkers, yeah.

Lesley (25:52.361)
Holy shit, yes

Lesley (26:06.127)
Mmm, okay.

Megan (26:09.902)
Lesley (26:14.537)
Don't fully okay worry at me in time We were at school we were How old at this time like this was elementary school times we were doing these things, okay? like 70s Okay, okay

Megan (26:37.226)
Yeah, so...

Lesley (26:39.731)
So we were like thinking about math tests and locker combinations. I don't have lockers, you know, locker combinations. And we weren't really thinking about like what was happening in the world in terms of education.

Megan (26:46.369)
Yeah. Yeah.

Megan (26:51.15)
Exactly. Like that wasn't our jam. We had no idea that our parents were fighting political battles over classrooms that we were currently sitting in.

Lesley (27:05.469)
Mm-hmm.

Megan (27:07.296)
So, but the truth is that modern education culture really started taking shape around the late 1970s. And that was basically because of the creation of the Department of Education, which happened in 1979. And that was the fabulous, lovely Jimmy Carter who actually created that department. So, yeah, for sure.

Lesley (27:14.674)
Okay.

Lesley (27:26.801)
Right. He was the best of us. my gosh. So like I was six years old. So at the time I was six years old, we didn't have, or when I was turning six, we didn't have a department of education. is like, take my age and subtract six, whatever. It's 46 years old or something like that. I can't do math like that while I'm talking.

Megan (27:49.311)
Ha ha.

right?

Lesley (27:56.382)
But before that, the education policy was just sort of scattered across different federal agencies.

Megan (28:02.69)
Right, yeah, for sure. Like the Department of Education was kind of created to coordinate federal education programs across all kinds of different places because they were there and it was put in place to really enforce civil rights and civil rights laws in schools. So.

Lesley (28:12.458)
Mm-hmm. Okay.

Lesley (28:23.825)
Okay, sure.

Megan (28:25.536)
you know that that had to, and I'm going to quote my grandmother here, but that had to totally stick in the craw of a lot of Republicans because, you know, we're talking about civil rights and that's clearly not something that they really wanted to talk about a whole lot.

still don't. Those, but those protections were in place and they were preventing things like, you know, discrimination based on race, based on disabilities, based on, you know, gender in education. So the moment, pretty much from the moment that the Department of Education was created, it became this like crazy political target for everybody, right? Everybody's going to have an opinion on that.

Lesley (28:56.041)
All right.

Lesley (28:59.913)
Mm-hmm.

Lesley (29:10.441)
So things that require accountability and don't allow you to discriminate. Fuck those things.

Megan (29:18.254)
We don't, whoops, don't need that anymore, you know.

Lesley (29:22.793)
What do you mean? I'm here to discriminate on purpose and you aren't going to tell me that I can't. This is like where the culture wars really begin. I guess like in the late seventies and the early eighties, conservative religious activists started organizing politically around the idea. Same thing with abortion was not an issue until like, yes.

Megan (29:27.894)
Right. Right.

Nope.

Megan (29:47.631)
Mm-hmm. Nope.

Lesley (29:52.618)
you're all being manipulated, started organizing politically around the idea that public schools were undermining traditional values like child abuse. One of the biggest organizations, this is my not so subtle color commentary, one of the biggest organizations pushing that message was the moral major, you can tell that I'm tired, the moral majority founded

Megan (29:53.038)
Till it, till it melts.

Megan (30:00.15)
Yes. Sure. No, I think it's right.

Megan (30:13.602)
You got it. Mer-mer-mer-majority.

Lesley (30:21.813)
in 1979 by televangelist, that's a multi-syllable word, I'm gonna be careful, Jerry Falwell.

Megan (30:26.283)
yeah.

Megan (30:30.222)
rest in rest in hell. Yeah. Yeah, grift much. So the argument like at the time by people like Jerry Falwell or Fal- see, Falwell. This is gonna be rough. We really don't like I feel like if you say his name three times, he'll show up kind of Beetlejuice, right? so, so maybe we don't mention that name again. But

Lesley (30:43.625)
We don't want to talk about him. Not really.

Lesley (30:51.207)
Right behind you in the mirror.

Megan (30:59.436)
like he and his ilk really thought that schools were too secular, they were too liberal, they were like disconnected from the traditional, and I'm using my quotation fingers, but those, yeah, those traditional American values. So their goal was to mobilize voters around these big education issues. They wanted prayer in schools.

Lesley (31:13.06)
yeah, big quote fingers.

Lesley (31:18.343)
Mm-hmm.

Megan (31:27.65)
They wanted, they didn't want us to learn about evolution, right? They wanted all the creationism bullshit. They didn't want sex education, like can't have that. And they wanted to get rid of books, certain books from school libraries. of course. everyone loves banning books. And I...

Lesley (31:31.475)
Holy.

Lesley (31:38.514)
Nope.

Lesley (31:43.281)
What they wanted to ban books

Lesley (31:49.001)
That's ridiculous.

Megan (31:50.894)
I find this all so interesting because I feel like this is about, and I know it is, this is the same time when women were starting to work more outside of the home and they were going to offices, know, they were all like Terry Gar and Mr. Mom, like they were, you know, they were doing, we're gonna have to dive deeper on all that shit at some point. But I feel like this was like a snap.

Lesley (32:04.361)
Mm.

Lesley (32:09.351)
I can't.

Lesley (32:15.273)
Mm-hmm.

Megan (32:21.108)
reaction to how do you get women back into the home? You know, we got to stop this shit. We can't have these women out there, you know, having these fancy ideas. And I feel like all of this kind of works together, right? Like we're so

Lesley (32:27.241)
Mm-hmm.

Lesley (32:31.646)
Sure.

Lesley (32:37.129)
Right, right, right, right, right. You can create all kinds of moral panic without actually anything happening just based on fears. mean, women were barely in jobs, barely. Some women, like latch-kick kids who are still in the 80s were just barely getting out there. When the reality is many women had had to work full-time jobs for a very long time to fill in for.

Megan (33:02.062)
Sure. Yep.

Lesley (33:07.027)
perhaps people who weren't working. I don't know why I'm like coding my own lived experience, but like my grandmother's life, like they all had to work because the guys were just like gone doing whatever.

Megan (33:11.694)
right? Or, well, or they all had to work. Yeah, the dudes were gone. Husbands walked out on women all the time and they had to like, somebody's got to bring home the bacon and fry it up in the pan. Right? I mean, so I just feel like that is it is so

Lesley (33:30.012)
Right. Right.

Megan (33:36.928)
It's just not believable to me that anybody really gave a shit about this moral yada, yada, yada. I just don't think anybody really gave a shit. I feel like there were layers upon layers of reasons why, and none of it was, it wasn't godly. I refuse to believe that.

Lesley (33:48.731)
Yes.

Lesley (33:57.834)
No, no, no, no, not at all. I mean, we could go, we're kind of going, this is a little bit of a rabbit hole, but I'm gonna come right back. Like you could go back hundreds and hundreds, every century throughout history and see a return to an organized church for control of the masses with the same song and dance. Don't teach people to read.

Megan (34:21.592)
Mm-hmm.

Megan (34:28.214)
Right, they'll get fancy ideas.

Lesley (34:30.139)
You know what I mean? Like if anybody can read the Bible, what then? And it's always about the control of the.

Megan (34:35.404)
Right. for sure.

Lesley (34:44.009)
Populous the majority of the populace for the benefit of the few for the financial benefit of the few

Megan (34:45.39)
Mm-hmm.

Yep. mean, that's why to dig a little farther deeper into your hole that you are digging.

Lesley (34:54.459)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, let's go.

Megan (34:55.758)
That's why the Catholic Church did everything in Latin. People didn't speak Latin, right? The only people who knew how to speak it were the priests. And so they were telling you what the Bible said and interpreting what the Bible said the way they wanted to. And that is a form of control.

Lesley (35:02.033)
Yes. No.

Lesley (35:12.062)
Yes.

Lesley (35:16.689)
Yes. Absolutely. Yes, absolutely. just, yes. I took eight years of Latin.

Megan (35:23.702)
Yes and yes.

And look at you today.

Lesley (35:34.045)
context just as you saying that when I think about the kind of education that I experienced in middle school, like went to a Montessori school. And so if you connect Latin to like rebellion, like if you learn to read and speak Latin, then you can learn to read and interpret the Bible on your own. I kind of want to imagine that my Latin was a big fuck you.

Megan (35:50.883)
Yeah.

I mean, a big fuck you, right, a big fuck you that way. And also, you could then turn around and read the riveting things that Julius Caesar had to say because, you know, that guy was a storyteller.

Lesley (35:56.102)
Middle fingers, kids! Learn a dead language!

Lesley (36:09.257)
in their original texts in my lingua latina book. It was awesome. Okay, okay, okay. So what are we talking about? Oh yeah, prayer in school, that got us all there. Like all these things, prayer in school, teaching evolution, sex education, these were not abstract political ideas. They were obviously happening in real classrooms in the 80s.

I don't remember this. Several states actually tried to require schools to teach creation science alongside evolution. This is like, I mean, this is continued. Like this is even when my kids were in school. Like, why aren't we teaching like creationism? And I'm like, because it's pretend that we can teach that in interpretive literature classes, but perhaps not, you know, believe away. Exactly. And you go there.

Megan (36:42.062)
fur. Yeah. For sure.

Megan (36:51.51)
It ain't science, friends. Yeah.

Megan (36:59.904)
That's what Sunday school's for, kids. Yeah.

Lesley (37:04.841)
Uh, there were court cases about it. There was one in Arkansas in 1982, so I was nine. didn't care. And another went all the way to the Supreme court in 1987. And that one, maybe I have some like shreds of memory of, but I bet people listening will remember that.

Megan (37:05.134)
Mm-hmm.

Megan (37:21.29)
for sure. Absolutely. So, you know, here we are sitting in, you know, sitting in the classroom, we're learning about dinosaurs, we're learning about fossils, and they're literally having court cases at the same time about whether we should ever be taught about dinosaurs and fossils and whether like, you know, people rode dinosaurs. So fucking stupid. What was that? What was that book?

Lesley (37:30.909)
Mm-hmm.

Lesley (37:42.025)
I mean, I always wanted to ride a dinosaur. And then we made Jurassic Park. What?

Megan (37:49.72)
What was that book? That was, Danny the Dinosaur. Do you remember that?

Lesley (37:52.418)
okay. And then we made Jurassic Park. If only we could just keep it at that. But that wasn't the only issue. Through the 80s, there were big fights over textbooks. I do remember this, especially in states like Texas and California, where textbooks decisions affect students across the country. Parents groups were arguing over how American history was taught, whether or not racism should be discussed. Some communities.

Megan (37:56.62)
Yes.

Megan (38:05.168)
God,

Megan (38:12.558)
Absolutely.

Megan (38:19.254)
God forbid, we don't talk about it.

Lesley (38:21.801)
Right? Because if we don't talk about it, it surely doesn't happen. Oh, I have so many things I could say. Some communities held public hearings, unsurprisingly, where parents read passages from textbooks that they objected to. thinking, I'm remembering the Field of Dreams. You remember that scene with Holly Hunter? And she's like, you had two 50s and went straight on into the 70s. Because she talking about remembering the 60s. She goes off because this woman's going to try to ban books.

Megan (38:49.165)
Yep.

Yep. Yep. There it is.

Lesley (38:52.499)
There you go. It sounds a whole lot, lot, lot, lot, It sounds a whole lot like how parents were fairly recently showing up and reading excerpts of books intended for students over 18 and insinuating that they were for kindergartners, which is like absolutely not true.

Megan (39:07.672)
Yeah.

Megan (39:11.7)
for sure.

Right, right. But boy, that was a, you know, that's a good clip for the evening news, right? Like, look at that, boobies in it.

Lesley (39:19.953)
a little shock and awe. And with the whole the textbook thing, we're not even talking about all the money that's being made about all the Republican owned corporations like Pearson Publishing, who are making billions of dollars. But that's not the subject of tonight.

Megan (39:27.931)
right.

Megan (39:33.932)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

So, no, I mean, this is deep enough, right? But like, whoo, so like at the same time that all of this is going down, the Reagan administration was starting to push for you'll love this. And I know that you remember this shit was pushing for federal policies to encourage abstinence only sex education.

Lesley (39:55.165)
Mm.

Lesley (40:00.937)
Hmm.

Megan (40:01.39)
Because we all know how that works with like raging hormonal undeveloped brains, right? Like just don't have sex, that'll fix it. I mean, literally, literally how many people did you, well, you went to a very small school. So this is probably, this is not a fair question. Although you, you did end up in North Central, right?

Lesley (40:06.021)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, because that's exactly how that works.

Lesley (40:16.901)
Yes, and we had sex education.

Lesley (40:22.065)
Yeah, but by then I was like, by the time I went to North central, I was a sophomore. So.

Megan (40:26.786)
But did you have like at that time, I mean, can you remember pregnant kids in high school?

Lesley (40:35.753)
I didn't have any friends who got pregnant. I mean, I went to school with almost 4,000 people. And so I'm sure that there absolutely were women, females who were pregnant, at that time. But like, it was, I wouldn't have thought much of it really had that been the case and not like in my direct friend group that I was aware of.

Megan (40:45.484)
Yeah.

Megan (40:51.054)
Sure, sure.

Megan (40:58.562)
Right.

Megan (41:04.087)
Yeah, yeah.

Lesley (41:04.585)
Like if anyone in my direct friend group had had an abortion, we probably would not have talked about it. You know what I mean? Except maybe to like your closest friends or something. And even then, I don't know that that would have been really discussed. But somehow quickly, go ahead.

Megan (41:10.892)
Yeah, yeah, that's fair.

Right, right, right.

Megan (41:21.75)
Yeah, probably not. do remember, I was just gonna say, remember that we, at my high school, I do remember a couple of girls that were pregnant. And I don't mean any shame by this at all. I just think that it's like, I feel like we were at such a disadvantage because we really weren't learning.

Lesley (41:37.298)
yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just like...

Megan (41:45.772)
because of this shit, we weren't really learning how to protect yourself, how to not get pregnant, right? Like it was all very, you know, it all felt so sterilized and so not relevant to us. Like the sex education stuff was really, you know, it's not teaching me nothing.

Lesley (41:52.498)
Yes.

Lesley (42:00.178)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lesley (42:08.527)
Yeah. And the education that you got, I mean, at least in my remembered experience, and like I was not in public school, so I don't know what that was like, but it was all in middle school. So it was very like biological. And we did kind of learn about where babies came from and all that stuff, but we would not have been talking about safe sex at the time that we were getting that first round of sex education. And I don't remember anything after that.

Megan (42:21.249)
Yeah.

Megan (42:29.164)
Right.

Lesley (42:34.675)
Probably in my psychology class, we talked about relationships and stuff, and I'm sure it came up in there. But I don't remember anything specific, maybe in biology, maybe.

Megan (42:38.926)
Sure.

Yeah.

Megan (42:47.458)
Did you guys at North Central, did you have the sex education class where they gave you a doll and you had to like take care of the doll and the doll would cry and if you didn't take care of the doll right, then it would stay up all night and cry and you remember those?

Lesley (42:57.619)
Mm-mm.

Lesley (43:04.195)
Yes. No, I know what you're talking about, but we did not have that. And I will say like as a freshman, I went to Barabaf, which is a Jesuit school. So we sure as fuck did not have sex education. You know what I mean? So that was not happening there, which is pretty funny. Yeah. Probably got most of my... Go ahead.

Megan (43:10.133)
Okay.

Megan (43:14.24)
Okay. Yeah. No. No. No, you did not.

Megan (43:26.358)
I do think we had, I think we had the kids, I think we had the babies at my school. I think we did. I wasn't in that class, but.

Lesley (43:31.379)
Did you?

What would you have taken? Would it have been like in a home at class? And then like, what did it mean? okay. Like how would you have gotten, if it wasn't taught to everybody, how would you have gotten tracked into that class where you were being taught how to take care of a baby?

Megan (43:38.414)
Maybe? I mean it could have been like a sex ed thing, I guess. Maybe? I don't know.

Megan (43:56.75)
The only thing I could think is that it was like a pilot program thing of some sort because for my whole life I was in weird ass pilot programs anyway. Like I remember in elementary this has nothing to do with this subject.

Lesley (44:01.993)
Mm-hmm.

Lesley (44:12.617)
You

Megan (44:14.214)
I had, and I may have mentioned this before, but in elementary school, I was in a phonetics program. So like every book that I had, every, my math book, my history book, everything was written phonetically.

Lesley (44:29.833)
OK. So I can read very, well and really fast. I can't spell shit. Oh, sure, sure. Right. Oh, and it didn't make the translation then between the phonetics and then spelling.

Megan (44:30.656)
So I can read very, very well and really fast. I can't spell for shit. Like I literally, know, like everything is phonetic. So yeah, but it's weird pilot programs.

Megan (44:49.664)
No. The good, right? The good news is in most, in a lot of cases, things are actually spelled phonetically in the English language. So I, that it's okay. It's okay. It's just, right. Just put a W in there somewhere. It'll be fine. Just throw it in there.

Lesley (44:51.473)
Because this is.

Lesley (45:00.745)
Right. Right. Unlike Welsh.

Totally.

Different brain, different brain. I do remember some fesses about kind of like banning books, but I don't know that like a ton of that, like really took over in, in my high school. the American library association started tracking book challenges in 1982, big year nine, because so many complaints were coming from parents groups trying to like remove books from school.

Megan (45:20.91)
Yeah.

Megan (45:32.664)
Yeah, yeah.

Megan (45:39.358)
So and a lot of those books were things that you know, we were reading as kids, right? At least like junior high and high school, right? We were reading things like Catcher in the Rye. We were reading Slaughterhouse Five, right? You have to have some Vonnegut. And of mice, some Steinbeck, some Mice and Men, right? Those were on those banned book. And I think they probably still are lists.

Lesley (45:46.13)
for sure. Yes!

Lesley (45:51.165)
Yes, love.

Rudolph.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm.

Lesley (46:05.801)
Absolutely, always. mean, Gen X kids were like raised on and reading the books at the center of national controversies. I mean, we didn't realize it. And I think like when it would be brought to our attention, it was just like, what the fuck? That's so stupid.

Megan (46:22.67)
Right. why shouldn't I read of mice and men?

Lesley (46:29.749)
Right. Where's Slaughterhouse 5? Why shouldn't we know about the conditions of slaughterhouses? I don't know, because then we have empathy for labor. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Megan (46:30.616)
Right?

Right.

Megan (46:38.446)
you

Yeah. Yeah. Can't have that. Yeah. Can't have that. Don't need that anymore. Whoops.

Lesley (46:48.157)
People and their silly rights.

Lesley (46:53.929)
Nope, clearly that's what's happening. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so the theme when you like distill all of this, what you and I know, is that it is about control. know, controlling minds, controlling the way people think, who gets to decide like what students get to read, what do they have access to.

Megan (47:11.286)
Yeah, 100%.

Lesley (47:22.202)
the history that they learn, the science that they're taught. It's also about who makes the money out of all of those books. And an uneducated populace is a disempowered populace and an easily controllable populace.

Megan (47:28.984)
Sure.

Megan (47:34.978)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah. right, because whoever controls education, right, controls everything, right? And that's kind of what we're seeing now. That's sort of like, now we can kind of transition into the shift that's going on now, because we are pretty much in the next phase of those same battles. And just the scale seems like it's a lot bigger, right? It just feels bigger now.

Lesley (47:45.191)
Yeah.

Lesley (47:55.696)
Mm-hmm.

Lesley (48:01.011)
Mm-hmm.

Lesley (48:04.457)
Mm-hmm.

It's so aggressive. mean, in the 80s, we, I think, still had a lot of respect for local control in a way that, I mean, for good or ill, school boards and local communities were able to kind of make these decisions. But also that's where, like, the arguments were happening and everything was not

Megan (48:20.588)
Yeah, yeah.

Lesley (48:35.145)
televised or streamed or like edited for the shock value. There weren't people getting up and doing like performative propaganda, I guess I would say, you know, in front of school boards and things. I guess there's also the other side of that where people are saying things that are really true. And today they're happening like nationally, like all of that local control has just been wrested from.

Megan (48:37.13)
Online, right.

Lesley (49:05.033)
local school boards and local governments and is being consolidated at a faster and faster level and then nationally is where We're going we're seeing organized activist groups trying to influence education policy across the country like moms for liberty which formed in 2021 and then there are chapters everywhere and it's like this misnomer because like who's liberty and when

Megan (49:15.266)
Yeah, where it's all, I know, right, where it's all going.

Megan (49:23.381)
I don't know.

Megan (49:31.251)
it's that group, Moms for Liberty.

their campaigns are focusing on removing books from school libraries. They are actively working on how to restrict topics that people are talking about, like race and gender, and they're trying to control what is being discussed in the classroom. again, dumbing it all down, right? Controlling what's happening. And they say that it's all because they are

Lesley (49:52.499)
Mm-hmm.

Megan (50:06.64)
for parental rights. Like a parent should have the right to yada, yada, yada, yada, right? We should have control over what our kids are learning in school. And to that, I say, go to Catholic school if you want to control that shit. Like you play in the public sphere, you get to go to public school, you learn what public school kids learn. Anyway.

Lesley (50:12.819)
Sure.

Lesley (50:30.217)
And like you've always had the ability to opt them out. Like we're not going to read that book. We're not going to celebrate that holiday. We're not going to, you know, we don't do that.

Megan (50:35.47)
I think so, right? Like...

Megan (50:41.504)
I don't have to stand up and do the Pledge of Allegiance, you know, if you don't want to.

Lesley (50:44.871)
right? And then they phased that out at some point.

Megan (50:48.973)
Yeah.

I mean, the whole thing like puts such crazy pressure on schools. puts crazy pressure on teachers because imagine like if you are the teacher in a classroom where you've got half the classroom wants to read of Mice and Men and they're okay with it and then the other half doesn't and now you've got to like try and balance that shit and teach two different things and that's just it's fucking ludicrous anyway.

Lesley (51:10.451)
Right.

Lesley (51:16.071)
and it pushes really good teachers out of the field.

Megan (51:19.598)
Yes, yes. I have a dear friend who has been teaching for 24, 25 years. Is that right? Holy crap. Maybe longer.

Lesley (51:30.472)
Wow.

Mm-hmm.

Megan (51:33.516)
Now that I think about it anyway, she's done. Like she wants out so bad and she's like, how do you take all of these years of experience as a teacher and do something else with it? You know, so she's kind of going through all of that right now and it's yeah. And she's fabulous. She's fabulous. And she's one of the people at her school who has been there the longest and you know, younger teachers learn from her and they're going to lose all of this. Right. They're going to lose all of this

Lesley (51:38.793)
Mmm.

Lesley (51:43.825)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lesley (51:49.641)
Mm.

Lesley (51:55.027)
Yeah.

Yep, we need those mentors.

Megan (52:03.47)
fabulous teacher thought and and it's going to walk out the door.

Lesley (52:06.386)
Yeah.

Absolutely. And there's just so many like, political groups stepping into the arena, creating educational materials, like, PragerU, which is not a university. It's a media organization that produces short political videos. I don't know if you've watched any of them. They are.

Megan (52:17.871)
God.

Megan (52:27.406)
No, everybody should totally hop on YouTube and watch some of the crap that they put out because it is un fucking real it is It's so bad like and what's awful. What's so terrible is they're like they're really catchy, you know, and they're terrifyingly simplified like they just dumbed down everything and then they're Ideologically framed into different what you know these weird

Lesley (52:33.979)
It's a-gree-gous. A-gree-gous.

Lesley (52:43.401)
Ugh.

Lesley (52:48.051)
Sure.

Lesley (52:52.104)
Mm-hmm.

Megan (52:54.874)
not true, not authentic versions of American history. They're just like, but boy are they catchy, you know, and they got cute little cartoon characters doing shit. But they gloss over everything that like actually matters. So, you know, we can't talk about slavery. We can't talk about systematic systemic racism. We can't talk about like,

Lesley (53:16.137)
Mm-mm.

Megan (53:18.772)
you know, actual facts because we're so focused on these, you know, again with my quotation fingers, like alternative viewpoints and it's frustrating. It is just unbelievable.

Lesley (53:28.763)
alternative viewpoints. They're so focused on gaslighting and denial.

Megan (53:34.262)
Yeah, like rewriting history, completely whitewashing it. That's where they are. Yeah.

Lesley (53:38.206)
because I'm uncomfortable with the history of our country. And now the fight is continuing to move into like federal policy. There were recent proposals to like shift programs out of the Department of Education and reduce the department's overall role. Of course, they've already fired like half the Department of Education or more. The argument is being made that education decisions should be handled by the states and local communities rather than a federal government, except for the fact.

Megan (53:55.797)
Absolutely.

Lesley (54:07.613)
that the federal government is profoundly influencing who gets access in those local communities and is trying to control elections and is suggesting that like publicly voted for positions. I don't know. Like in the state of Indiana should then suddenly become appointed positions or I don't know. Maybe the state should take over the local public school organization.

Megan (54:07.904)
Wait.

Megan (54:30.38)
Yeah.

Lesley (54:36.561)
You know what I mean? Like.

Megan (54:37.74)
their little community, don't worry, we gotcha, we'll take care of this. You don't need to worry about this anymore. Yeah. And you know, the problem too is when you start weakening the Department of Education the way that they are.

Lesley (54:41.865)
Wolves in sheep's clothing. Wolves in sheep's clothing. Yes.

Lesley (54:54.398)
Mm-hmm.

Megan (54:54.766)
then you are getting rid of that federal oversight of things that are truly important like civil rights, know, like protections for people, equity. I mean, I know we can't say the words, we can't say the initials DEI anymore because people lose their fucking minds. But like, who is going to be in charge of investigating discrimination complaints? Like, nobody. Like, it's

Lesley (55:03.507)
Right. Equity.

Lesley (55:14.279)
Mm-hmm.

Lesley (55:22.673)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Mm-hmm.

Megan (55:24.75)
just doesn't exist anymore. So we're kind of playing in this weird Wild West space. And, you know, and it was all put in place originally because people were denied equal access to education. And so we're just like, yoink, pull the rug right out. We don't need that anymore.

Lesley (55:30.729)
Mm-hmm.

Lesley (55:39.187)
Yes?

Yep, yep. That is, yeah. That's so, I'm actually thinking about that. Trying to see where we are. Okay. Keeping ourselves semi on track. So there was no like diversity, equity, inclusion, or office of civil rights. But my grandmother worked her whole career. was in civil service for the government. She was in Kentucky.

She worked out at Fort Knox and she independently was in charge of investigating discrimination complaints. That was her job. She was the highest graded female that she could have. It the highest grade they would allow females to have in civil service. And it didn't have like a proper title at that time. So when someone would have to file a complaint, she would go and gather all the evidence and it was all done by hand on paper.

Megan (56:36.684)
Yeah.

Lesley (56:37.415)
with pencil and she would type it all up. But that was towards the end of her career. That was sort of like what she did. It was a big part of her job. But it didn't have a name at that time. They had to have a way to have complaints happen. So it was in association with civil rights.

Megan (56:55.682)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lesley (57:02.173)
But I'm just, as you were saying that I was just like, fuck. Yeah, of course. Like my framework is that yes, we have rights, right? Like I was born and we got checking accounts. I mean, that's how it works. We were born and we were able to get mortgages and loans and everything's cool and we can vote and everything's good. But there was no framework for that for like my mom's younger years and my grandmother's life. Of course. So doing work that didn't exist.

Megan (57:08.909)
Yeah.

Great.

Megan (57:15.779)
Right.

Megan (57:19.075)
Right.

Megan (57:24.13)
Right.

Megan (57:29.73)
For sure. but how freaking awesome that she did that because like she was that one of those trailblazers, right? Who because of the work that she did, it probably made putting the processes in place, you know, once the department of education was formed and was, you know, doing what they were supposed to be doing, like they had her work and work of people like her to draw from. So that's really cool.

Lesley (57:38.813)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Lesley (57:45.481)
.

Right, right.

Yeah.

Yeah, I guess that's really true because if it was formed in 79 and I think she retired like in 84, 85 and they tried to get her to stay and she was like, sorry, my daughter's dying. can't, I'm retiring. I'm not going to do that. But when you think about the timing of that, like that's crazy. And she was assigned the work because it was considered unassignable to a male. It wasn't important enough.

Megan (58:02.67)
Yes.

Lesley (58:25.587)
to be done by a male.

Megan (58:25.974)
Wow, that's pretty telling too, isn't it?

Lesley (58:31.229)
Isn't that interesting?

Megan (58:31.244)
And here I am. Here's like super ignorant me who would say, they gave it to her because she's a woman and that would be an empathetic role. And she would hear more than.

Lesley (58:35.24)
Mm-hmm.

Lesley (58:40.881)
Mm-mm. It was like, we'll just give this. Yeah. Because they couldn't promote her any higher, she was not allowed to be promoted any higher because she was a female. You know what I mean? So talk about figuring out how to live in a system that was absolutely structurally created to make sure that you never would be in a position that was elevated higher than a male.

Megan (58:55.08)
we have so many things to talk about.

Lesley (59:10.299)
And she was a white woman in Kentucky, like with all the white skin privilege, except for the fact that she didn't have the privilege of a marriage. She did not have that privilege. And so just like, it would literally say this grade and higher available to men only. What the fuck?

Megan (59:14.23)
Yeah, but yeah, but still.

Megan (59:19.181)
Yes.

Megan (59:23.736)
Yeah.

Megan (59:32.94)
Yeah. No, I mean, we, that's a whole, we got a whole other episode we could talk about with that shit because that is, that happened. And, you know, if we ever actually got the equal rights amendment, maybe it wouldn't happen anymore, but you know, I'm pretty sure it still happens.

Lesley (59:39.729)
Yes!

Lesley (59:50.674)
Right. Yeah. Because rights that can be invalidated aren't rights. They're privileges that are granted by the ruling class. And that is not freedom, folks. So as we've been saying across the board, that's why this is not just about

Megan (59:56.308)
Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.

No, no ma'am. No ma'am.

Lesley (01:00:14.821)
It's about whether public education remains a place where every student has the same rights and protections. Like, do we all belong here?

Megan (01:00:23.884)
I mean, right. And I think that's the part that makes a lot of people, including us, and hopefully more people than not really angry about what's happening right now. Because public schools and education and the right to education and the right to learning the truth about the world that we live in,

Lesley (01:00:36.136)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Lesley (01:00:45.097)
Mm-mm.

Lesley (01:00:50.654)
Mm-hmm.

Megan (01:00:51.486)
it should belong to everybody. It should be something, it should be a natural, absolute right in the same way that healthcare should be a right, you know? But education and schools are places where we're supposed to learn about history, we're supposed to learn about science, we're supposed to learn about literature, we're supposed to learn about the world that we live in in like an honest and super authentic and open way. And here we are.

Lesley (01:00:57.085)
Yes. Absolutely. Yes. Yes.

Lesley (01:01:12.19)
Mm-hmm.

Lesley (01:01:18.921)
And then so when like political movements, very highly special interests, political movements start trying to control what students are allowed to learn, it's going to have serious consequences. And of course we're saying it's affecting teachers, it's affecting students. It will affect the future of the country if it's allowed to continue.

Megan (01:01:37.678)
Yeah, yeah. I think that, you know, the wild thing for me is that all of this was going down in our lifetime, right? Like, this was like, we were there for the beginning of the fights, whether we knew it or not, right? Like, were aware of it. Yeah. And we were way too young to understand the stakes of it. But, you know, this all...

Lesley (01:01:49.287)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Lesley (01:01:54.609)
Right, in our generation, yeah.

Lesley (01:02:01.319)
Right.

Megan (01:02:03.827)
it happened in our lifetime, it's fucking happening again, right?

Lesley (01:02:05.744)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And now we're here for the next round of battles. And we do know what's at stake. But are we going to be able to do anything about it?

Megan (01:02:15.542)
Yeah, I mean, I think we do. Education is just one of those important institutions in a democracy, and we're watching it get torn down. And I think that's truly why there is half of the country trying so hard to dismantle the Department of Education, to tear education down. That's how we learn about how the world works, right? And I don't know.

Lesley (01:02:27.206)
Mm-hmm.

Lesley (01:02:42.25)
Mm-hmm.

Megan (01:02:45.558)
we're going to end up erasing part of history and that's what's so incredibly frustrating.

Lesley (01:02:45.854)
But I think it's...

I mean, that's the goal, right? Because if we actually look at our history and examine things deeply, then we can only be more open, more inclusive, know, like be more accountable, take more responsibility. Like you can't look away from.

Megan (01:03:12.492)
Right, right.

Lesley (01:03:13.418)
the needs of the few in that instance when everyone kind of knows everything, not to like misappropriate a Star Trek quote, but I kind of did. I know, this was what we grew up seeing, right? This is the future, more, the whole universe, everyone, know, life forms everywhere. And there were like rules in place for interacting with those cultures, you know, that were protective of those people.

Megan (01:03:20.43)
It's all right. Gene Roddenberry would be happy with you. It's fine.

Megan (01:03:29.422)
Yeah.

Lesley (01:03:41.397)
There was still some white colonialism in there. Yes, yes, we know. But they did their best in terms of being progressive at that time. And it's certainly written very differently today. So the culture war in schools and over education never really ended. They've just changed shape. And now they're back in a way that feels like, I think, I mean, more evil, quite honestly, like more insidious. It's...

Megan (01:03:52.856)
Yeah.

Megan (01:04:06.925)
Yeah.

Lesley (01:04:07.839)
because of all of the other technology that is available to support it.

Megan (01:04:12.952)
Well, and it's like three card Monty too, right? We've got like the little show. We got a show fucking games where it's like over here, trans rights, you know, gonna put it over here, but don't look over here because over here we've actually got real problems, you know, or like trans athletes in sports. Nope. Don't look over there. You know, I just.

Lesley (01:04:18.57)
Mm-hmm.

Lesley (01:04:22.157)
Ugh. Yeah.

Lesley (01:04:27.312)
Yes, I mean.

Yeah, we're going to talk about 0.04 % of the population that just wants to live their fucking lives in peace. Just let me live my life in peace. And yet, we will not release the Epstein files.

Megan (01:04:40.406)
Yeah.

Megan (01:04:47.406)
We've got to have a conversation too about, at some point, about women in sports and the fucking bullshit around all the things. Because I have so many things to talk about.

Lesley (01:04:58.28)
The magic... the proximity!

The close, I'm just like the proximity, like what it, why do you need, like you just do you girl, do you. Just stay in your lane, swim your race, swim against yourself. Like some of this, like the seeds of these things, I will say as a Gen Xer who.

Megan (01:05:07.502)
Megan (01:05:13.976)
We need to talk more.

Lesley (01:05:28.938)
played soccer and did all those shitty things and didn't always fucking get a trophy. Some of this is about moving to like, and everyone gets a gold star and everyone has to be successful in the exact same way. It was like this bastardization of what should have provided equity, but was like, but my kids feelings are hurt because he get a trophy. Like sort of like parenting trends, it's all these cultural shifts where we overcompensate in one direction. And so then somebody says, well,

Megan (01:05:33.656)
Mm-hmm.

Megan (01:05:44.654)
Yeah.

Megan (01:05:53.868)
Yeah, 100 % yes.

Lesley (01:05:59.694)
I should win because, you know, I mean, it's because I worked really hard. You know, not because, so yes, there's a whole other rabbit hole we can go down, but I think that's, that's enough for today.

Megan (01:06:05.366)
Yeah, they're there. my god, so many. That's enough for today. I think if you are still with us, thanks. Make sure you hit that subscribe button. If you're

Lesley (01:06:18.174)
Yeah. Appreciate you. It's probably been 45, 50 minutes.

Megan (01:06:23.628)
I know, but here we are. And this is like, there are so many topics like this where we are just going through stuff that we should have fucking figured out and fixed, right? Years ago, like why are we redoing this shit? So we've got more things to talk about like this, but I'm pretty fucking sick of this shit. All right, thanks.

Lesley (01:06:29.631)
Yeah.

Lesley (01:06:36.031)
Yes.

Yep. Yep, yep. Yep.

Lesley (01:06:46.378)
Can't step on stuff. All right, my friend. Have a great night. It was good to talk.

Megan (01:06:54.008)
Good to talk. Yeah, I hope things get better, cooler, easier, softer, gentler, nicer.

Lesley (01:07:00.382)
Things are gonna get easier. Ooh, get brighter. Mm-hmm.

Megan (01:07:03.414)
I hope that the shitification of the world is finally, I don't know. It's great. See ya, bye.

Lesley (01:07:10.922)
It's gonna be awesome. Kickin' ass. Peace!